fluch_der_karibikfandomcom-20200214-history
Diskussionsfaden:Uskok/@comment-32559360-20180127183107/@comment-32559360-20180131221449
@ Name: Don’t get me wrong. I didn’t mean the mentions in dialogue in the film, I meant the mentions in the screenplay, mate. The screenplay is the basic for all, what is presented on the screen or later in books, games and so on. The HMS Dauntless f. e. is nearly always mentioned with the prefix in the script for COTBP, especially most in non-verbal descriptions of the scenes. The Endeavour is only once mentioned as HMS in the scripts. In the film, she plays a major role, she is always called Endeavour – without the prefix. If it was the purpose to declare this ship as a Royal Navy ship, it would be named as HMS like the Dauntless in nearly any scene, she shows up in the screenplay. @ Official: The German novelization of AWE is not simply a „blind“ translation of an English-written product. It is an official novel, based on the screenplay and licensed by Disney. The fact, that it was written in German does not make it less official. By the way ... the page, you presented as proof for HMS Endeavour, is written in Dutch. If translated stuff is less official, then this comic book is really not more official than the German novelization ... @ Pocket-Model-Game: Okay, maybe a misunderstanding for my part. But it is not more official than other products licensed by Disney. @ Beckett’s commission: Okay, that is your interpretation of these scenes. But if you are right, it makes no sense to cancel the commission-scene. As for the arrest-warrants: Yes, we do not know, who signed them. I believe – by the complete cancelling of the commission-scene – they are well done falsifications. @ Letter of marque: But you will agree, that a Letter of marque signed and sealed by the king himself is valid without the additional signature and a seal of a Lord? Beckett claims, it is not. That is the fantasy in this scene, which does not proof Beckett really to be the king’s emissary. @ Cryer: Okay, agreed to that point – by the presupposition, the commission of Beckett were revealed openly in the film. Otherwise it is at least contradictory. I told you, what my interpretion is of the fact, these few seconds are not „worth“ to be revealed to the audience. @ Privateer: Yes, agreed – by the presupposition, Beckett is officially charged. You know, I doubt that. @ Flag/pennant/figurehead: No, dear, I am not selective in the question of flags. It is clear, the flags of the HMS Providence in OST and the Essex in DMTNT are not historical correct, they are not correct for modern times in their places. That is the point, for which I have no faith in the shown flags in Pirates. When prominent visable flags are incorrect, why in the world should just flags be absolute historical correct meant, which are „hidden“ in few-second-scenes and background models, which are normally not registered by the audience? I think, it’s more selective, to take just things earnest which are not obvious to the audience, but only found in screenshots and enlargement of the pictures. It is also selective, to disregard the screenplay and prefer secondary sources like a game or a single book. But even if we take them as „fictional national military flags“ the Endeavour flies neither a military national flag at the stern, but the house flag. The pennant – how significant it may be for a real naval ship – is nearly unvisible in the motion. The Union Jacks, shown on the model in the exhibition, are not flown in the film, as far as I can recognize on the pictures in the gallery. They are only shown on the model. The model in the film does not catch any attention, since there is an intensive dialogue between Beckett and Sparrow. It is only to be found in a screenshot with enlargement of the picture, and it shows not the same flags as the „real“ ship in the film. Excuse me, but I can’t believe, that the producers wanted to have the EITC a „real“ Royal Navy ship and hide that fact from nearly the complete audience, except those who search every single picture of the film with a loupe and reveal the purpose by intensive research. At least we do not know, for what reason this pennant was put on the main mast of the Endeavour – or did Terry Rossio explain this on Keep To The Code? Therefore I don’t care about the flags in the films, not because I have a selective perception. As for the figurehead: Maybe, the model has the figurehead, you described. I cannot recognize it on the pictures in your gallery. And I cannot recognize on the screenshots, if the „real“ ship in the film had this figurehead. But even the „real“ ship in the film had it: It is really invisible, it catches no attention – different to the figurehead of the HMS Dauntless, which is the first look, we ever had in the Pirates-films. It was prominent shown to the audience. As I explained for the flags: I cannot believe, the producers would have the EITC a „real“ Royal Navy ship and let this only be known by nearly invisible emblems, which can only be found by notorious film-nerds, who study every single picture of the film. @ Historical accurate emblems: Mate, I’m historical interested perhaps since more years than you live. Let me tell you, I’m happy about any historical correctness, I find in any film I watch. But why should I take such few hidden realities more earnest than the big rest, what is definitely fictional? @ Redcoats: Oh, I know, that Redcoats are Royal marines – if they are really royal soldiers. But that is the point, I do not believe in DMC. The EITC has capacitiy and knowledge enough to copy such uniforms. @ Unmentioned things: Dear mate, if the producers wanted the audience to know, Beckett is a legal emissary of the king, the „commission scene“ wouldn’t have been omitted (there is even not a lateron released deleted scene, which presents this to the public). If they wanted to regard the Endeavour as a royal ship, it would have been mentioned so in the screenplay for the film, the ship plays a certain role – and not once in a screenplay for a film, the ship doesn’t play a visible role. Conclusion: I can accept a compromise, that there are some hidden hints, that the Endeavour may be a ship of the Royal Navy, but that isn’t definiteley cleared, whether this is right.